meh, Nokia is a company and the goal of any company is to make money and to make money you need to charge for something. they are not charging for the software, so they want people to buy the next IT. makes sense to me.
true, but a lot of people don't give a shit and if a sexy fast device is a sexy fast device ... so be it. we've had this argument back and forth, the reason you don't recommend the IT to people isn't because of the strength of the community, it's the fact that it's rather useless as a standalone unit and it doesn't even do web browsing as properly as it should. so while their may be dedicated people who care about such things, it's the sales to the other 99% of people Nokia care about.
it is OMAP 3 ... shite. Hoping that whatever (and whenever it) comes from this software update (That obviously will be running on OMAP 3) will be consumer friendly. Nokia should be owning the MID category - and yes I realize that's still niche.
i think the MID category in it of itself is a huge fucking joke, but hey, that's just me :-) one of your more recent blog posts summed it up quite well: if it doesn't fit in your pocket, why bother?
@rcadden: you can install the SDK, at least on a PC to simulate Maemo 5 (pre alpha).
As for breaking compatibility, it's unavoidable. Upcoming hardware will support features not available in maemo 4, and current hardware won't be able to handle all the upcoming OS bells and whistles.
And forks should not defeat a community. They happen on every platform except Windows (which keeps bringing forth the baggage of the past so people will upgrade; another topic).
Anyway, people are overreacting to the Diablo/Freemantle "breakage". It won't be the end of the earth. : p
agree - the community is small ... and though vocal, Nokia and Maemo did right with the N810 and N800 before making it attainable for people - particularly those who were already enthusiastic
@bogart, there aren't enough differences between N810 and N810WE to justify a true fork, so it makes sense to deploy one OS that can detect availablity of features such as WiMAX.
The next "tablet" (it may be called something else" will be a radical departure...
I did not think this had ANYTHING to do with the Wimax product which offers nothing other than wimax and a revised connection manager ...
Seems like the inclusion of the HD camera (however that is defined for real) and cellular data are a very new product. And one I am very hopeful will kick some serious ass.
OMAP3 compatibility issues aside, this is an early SDK release not targeted at devices. ;) So asking this question is a bit like asking if anybody has installed the Maemo 4.1 SDK on a tablet. Which, of course, nobody has, since that's not the point.
@bogart, the problem with that comparison is that the N800 and the N810 are almost exactly the same tablet (on the inside, where it counts) support for the N800 is essentially provided for free when you build support for the N810. All you have to do is make sure virtual input methods are supported and don't assume the availability of GPS, a hardware keyboard, or 2GB of built-in storage and you're done. ;)
Now, the differences between the N8x0, which use OMAP2, and the "N900" (RX-51), which uses OMAP3, are more profound than even the differences between the 770 and the N8x0.
Considering only the CPU, there's a 2-3x performance increase with the OMAP3 tablet over the OMAP2 tablets. When you factor in things like the HD camera, cellular connectivity, and OpenGL, it's really, truly, a whole different ball game.
@atmasphere, if you're looking for N8x0 support, you're probably going to want to pay attention to Mer once we get a few months down the road (think beta SDK timeframe).
@atmasphere, it wont. The OMAP3 gives you that 2-3x performance for the same power consumption figures as the OMAP2.
There's a neat little concept with ARM processors called "race-to-idle". At idle, ARM CPUs use practically zero power (in the case of the Cortex A8 in the OMAP3, that's actually zero power), so you want to get to idle as quickly as possible.
Basically, given two CPUs (in this case, an ARM11 and a Cortex A8) both working on the same task (say, encoding a 60 second audio file into MP3) and assuming similar power consumption at 100% CPU usage (400MHz for the ARM11 and 600MHz for the Cortex A8) the faster CPU will use significantly less power, because it takes less time to complete the task and will get to idle (and thus stop using power) much more quickly.
This is why (as counter-intuitive as it may sound), it's actually more battery-friendly (for normal usage, anyway) to ramp the CPU up to its maximum clock rate rather than limiting it to a lower MHz, as it'll get done with the task more quickly and can switch itself off.
That said, peak consumption for the OMAP3 is going to be a little bit higher than the OMAP2. Mostly because we're actually using the PowerVR this time around. So expect somewhat shorter battery life with the RX-51 when you're playing Quake 3 over 3G and listening to your favorite podcasts. ;)
29 comments so far
ahh... haven't touched my tab in months... let me break it out... needs a flashing though...
12 months ago by mobiledan
I wasn't aware that you could install Maemo 5 on them yet. On the N800?
12 months ago by rcadden
AFAIK you can't since it's meant for OMAP 3, but don't quote me on that
12 months ago by constantine
that's rather useless and annoying.
12 months ago by rcadden
meh, Nokia is a company and the goal of any company is to make money and to make money you need to charge for something. they are not charging for the software, so they want people to buy the next IT. makes sense to me.
12 months ago by constantine
true, but breaking compatibility with each new device is no way to build a community, either.
12 months ago by rcadden
true, but a lot of people don't give a shit and if a sexy fast device is a sexy fast device ... so be it. we've had this argument back and forth, the reason you don't recommend the IT to people isn't because of the strength of the community, it's the fact that it's rather useless as a standalone unit and it doesn't even do web browsing as properly as it should. so while their may be dedicated people who care about such things, it's the sales to the other 99% of people Nokia care about.
12 months ago by constantine
it is OMAP 3 ... shite. Hoping that whatever (and whenever it) comes from this software update (That obviously will be running on OMAP 3) will be consumer friendly. Nokia should be owning the MID category - and yes I realize that's still niche.
12 months ago by atmasphere
and this post sums up the state of Maemo 5 quite well: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=248501&postcount=131 this isn't for you to test as a consumer, this is for the people who get off on fucking around with new kernel implementations.
12 months ago by constantine
i think the MID category in it of itself is a huge fucking joke, but hey, that's just me :-) one of your more recent blog posts summed it up quite well: if it doesn't fit in your pocket, why bother?
12 months ago by constantine
mmm kernal implementations ...
12 months ago by atmasphere
Y'allz some P.I.M.P.s!
12 months ago by edythemighty
it is definitely about the pocket ... otheriwse with a bag required to carry it I already have a small laptop
12 months ago by atmasphere
a man purse!
12 months ago by edythemighty
@rcadden: you can install the SDK, at least on a PC to simulate Maemo 5 (pre alpha).
As for breaking compatibility, it's unavoidable. Upcoming hardware will support features not available in maemo 4, and current hardware won't be able to handle all the upcoming OS bells and whistles.
And forks should not defeat a community. They happen on every platform except Windows (which keeps bringing forth the baggage of the past so people will upgrade; another topic).
Anyway, people are overreacting to the Diablo/Freemantle "breakage". It won't be the end of the earth. : p
12 months ago by Texrat
agree - the community is small ... and though vocal, Nokia and Maemo did right with the N810 and N800 before making it attainable for people - particularly those who were already enthusiastic
12 months ago by atmasphere
Too bad. For some reason I thought it would run on the old hardware, much like Diablo runs on n800 even without the presence of GPS and keyboard.
Still, it will be interesting to see what comes of it.
12 months ago by bogart
@bogart, there aren't enough differences between N810 and N810WE to justify a true fork, so it makes sense to deploy one OS that can detect availablity of features such as WiMAX.
The next "tablet" (it may be called something else" will be a radical departure...
12 months ago by Texrat
I did not think this had ANYTHING to do with the Wimax product which offers nothing other than wimax and a revised connection manager ...
Seems like the inclusion of the HD camera (however that is defined for real) and cellular data are a very new product. And one I am very hopeful will kick some serious ass.
12 months ago by atmasphere
not to mention a new bloody chip mate.
12 months ago by constantine
f - wimax
12 months ago by atmasphere
say wimax in nokia house and all you hear is giggles
12 months ago by constantine
It was a good try, but it's DOA
12 months ago by atmasphere
OMAP3 compatibility issues aside, this is an early SDK release not targeted at devices. ;) So asking this question is a bit like asking if anybody has installed the Maemo 4.1 SDK on a tablet. Which, of course, nobody has, since that's not the point.
12 months ago by GeneralAntilles
O crap @bogart said N800, not N810. Oh well, same bs applies.
12 months ago by Texrat
as a non-dev / linux hacker it was worth a shot. thanks for the info
12 months ago by atmasphere
@bogart, the problem with that comparison is that the N800 and the N810 are almost exactly the same tablet (on the inside, where it counts) support for the N800 is essentially provided for free when you build support for the N810. All you have to do is make sure virtual input methods are supported and don't assume the availability of GPS, a hardware keyboard, or 2GB of built-in storage and you're done. ;)
Now, the differences between the N8x0, which use OMAP2, and the "N900" (RX-51), which uses OMAP3, are more profound than even the differences between the 770 and the N8x0.
Considering only the CPU, there's a 2-3x performance increase with the OMAP3 tablet over the OMAP2 tablets. When you factor in things like the HD camera, cellular connectivity, and OpenGL, it's really, truly, a whole different ball game.
@atmasphere, if you're looking for N8x0 support, you're probably going to want to pay attention to Mer once we get a few months down the road (think beta SDK timeframe).
12 months ago by GeneralAntilles
me likie what you are alluding to with the hardware approaching ... hopefully power management does not suffer with the new found power
12 months ago by atmasphere
@atmasphere, it wont. The OMAP3 gives you that 2-3x performance for the same power consumption figures as the OMAP2.
There's a neat little concept with ARM processors called "race-to-idle". At idle, ARM CPUs use practically zero power (in the case of the Cortex A8 in the OMAP3, that's actually zero power), so you want to get to idle as quickly as possible.
Basically, given two CPUs (in this case, an ARM11 and a Cortex A8) both working on the same task (say, encoding a 60 second audio file into MP3) and assuming similar power consumption at 100% CPU usage (400MHz for the ARM11 and 600MHz for the Cortex A8) the faster CPU will use significantly less power, because it takes less time to complete the task and will get to idle (and thus stop using power) much more quickly.
This is why (as counter-intuitive as it may sound), it's actually more battery-friendly (for normal usage, anyway) to ramp the CPU up to its maximum clock rate rather than limiting it to a lower MHz, as it'll get done with the task more quickly and can switch itself off.
That said, peak consumption for the OMAP3 is going to be a little bit higher than the OMAP2. Mostly because we're actually using the PowerVR this time around. So expect somewhat shorter battery life with the RX-51 when you're playing Quake 3 over 3G and listening to your favorite podcasts. ;)
12 months ago by GeneralAntilles