just the simple things like notifications still make Jaiku the superior product ... the closed beta period and extensive migration really hurt here though
I know from the desktop point of view i do love having the IM bot option, but it does feel like a client would be a great option. I know there were a few Jaiku clients a while ago which I did test out but always went back to the IM bot option. One less window and app running (seeing as I have the IM client going anyway).
However seeing Jaiku integrated into some of the other clients (similar to how gwibber has it done) would be great.
Definitely from a mobile point of view client integration would be crucial. I'm not sure where the Jaiku S60 app stands at the moment but that was always less useful to me as I wanted it to connect over wifi.
Of course the issue with client integration with current apps like gravity, twibble, etc etc is that they're all in a 140 char limit world, which really is a weakness in my eye. I find attempting to converse in 140 char results in multiple posts continuing on from each other.
Imagine me trying to get my point across here in 140 char with no threads. Impossible.
Definitely the last few months have hit Jaiku user base hard and a lot of people have disappeared. It just needs support and from the sounds of things if the mobile site came back online we'd see a lot more people posting here again.
Another thing I find really annoying since the change over to AppEngine is that Jaiku now seems to use very short-lived cookies for remembering you are logged in. Seems every time I come look again (to see basically hardly any posts in my overview), I first have to log back in again. Which is just another annoyance to drive me away.
@CAW Thanks to the miracle of open source I can show you that the cookies are set to last for 2 weeks: [http://www.google.com/codesearch/p?hl=en#kmhlYC3TZY/trunk/common/user.py&q=setuser_cookie%20package:http://jaikuengine%5C.googlecode%5C.com]
I think what's actually happening is that every time @termie deploys a new version of the Jaiku code the web app 'forgets' your cookie. I have a vague memory of talking to him about it.
I suppose we could get @termie to do a post as @jaiku whenever he deploys a new version of the system's code so that people have a better idea what's going on.
I'm with @atmasphere; mobile d where I need any social networks to be; unfrtunately I've also got that short window of also wanting something tha integrates simply too. Not sure that a full app is the answer in my case.
I would sooo love to use Jaiku more but Twitter seems to have won the popularity stakes and most of my contacts cannot be found here. Would very much like a desktop or mobile app with Twitter & Jaiku integration.
@Evertb I don't think anyone can seriously compete with a service that got Oprah Winfrey to sign up.
On the bright side--Jaiku et al don't have to. There's quite a bit of value in a network of services that isn't mainstream or mass market but which still let you interact with the mainstream.
@adewale I wasn't referring to Oprah or her ilk. It's just that Jaiku (or Twitter) are a superb communication tool. But in order to communicate you need two or more participants. Almost all my contacts are using Twitter while only a few use Jaiku.
I prefer Jaiku for the threaded conversation & channels it offers. But without a sizeable "population" these have less value..
1- Build a network of Jaiku/JaikuEngine and Identica/Laconica instances that's big enough that people feel they have to be part of that network as well as Twitter.
2- Twitter decide to federate with JaikuEngine/Laconica instances and suddenly it doesn't matter which system you're using because everyone can communicate with everyone else. Of course this depends upon Twitter announcing a business model predicated upon the number of messages flowing the entire microblogging web.
I tend to believe that 1 is the more likely option and that if the OpenMicroBlogging network becomes big enough then Twitter will join it in order to reduce the chance that people might be tempted away from their service.
There's an awful cycle that's really hurting Jaiku -- the lack of 3rd-party clients makes it less desirable for people to use the service, so they go towards Twitter and FriendFeed whose popularity encourages people to make all sorts of different desktop and mobile clients for both services. But because there aren't very many people using Jaiku, it's not as attractive to devs to create useful 3rd-party clients. <<major sigh>>
I want a desktop client like TweetDeck or Nambu and a mobile client like Tweetie (or Gravity, I guess) for Jaiku. I would =love= it if Mauku were ported to the iPhone, but I think my requests for that won't ever be addressed. The more ways I can access Jaiku, the more I'd use it. I'm no longer satisfied with using the website or the IM bot. They just seem archaic compared to how Twitter and FriendFeed are accessible.
twitter does do IM ... it's on and off but it is there. It's also possible to do it with plugins in adium / pidgin/ Mobile IM can be doen in clients within Fring as well.
I use Gravity and tweetdeck mainly and it's very simple - though far from as organized as Jaiku was and still is. This has always been an incredibly civil place to have a conversation and apparently it is still a great pace to share ideas and meet with friends.
I can't see twitter suddenly deciding to be the protocol for everyone to play on. They are just building into a mss platform and that seems to be the path to success. We'll probably see things built on top which will make it harder for other services. It would have been interesting if Jaiku was baked into Latitude as there is no discussion yet there ... and it seems like an easy way to offer Jaiku services across a great deal of platforms through maps - another key difference for Jaiku over twitter. Jaiku was always ahead with location - though did not do a whole lot with the info.
@atmasphere: IM is still there??? I just use µblogpurple for pidgin, but that's a scrapper. what I never got was why #twitter manage to go where #jaiku didn't! we are better then them in every way. our tuff luck was google buying #jaiku and leave it to die.
@BUGabundo Twitter being based in San Francisco really helped get them access to a lot of VCs and highly connected people from the Sillicon Valley scene. Also having easy access to a market of 250 million people who all spoke the same language helped.
Compare the lack of hype around Spotify. Spotify is a potentially massive (many billions of $CURRENCY) business but because they're European they're not being treated as if they're the Second Coming. If they were based in Sillicon Valley they'd be on magazine covers and TV shows all the time.
@adewale the comparison with spotify is an interesting choice. Their issue has nothing to do with being European - it's that you can't use it outside of the EU. Why should anyone in the US care that it even exists when last.fm (among at least 10 other services) can be used. Jaiku shut people out, did not open back up, then rebooted after most people it seems had moved on. Now it's back and things like mobile (a key factor) are gone just like feeds.
This is no longer about lifestreaming or mobile apparently. That's a tough sell compared to twitter or even facebook which offer access from all kinds of devices and locations.
AFAICT we are now too late in the race. it will much harder to get new (and old) users back in, because we lost not the batal, but the war. what ever we do here, its just for our selfs, its no longer a product to be sold, its not even to compete with the others. and even we FOSS code, how many will really install it and run it ?
but hay don't let me stop any one. by the contraire. every bit of improvement, and every old user that comes back, is great for me and everyone else here! we LOVE this place, and that why we keep coming! I just hope I can one day have all my friends back here, and let me talk to all of them as once I did
TweetDeck added Facebook status updates, I wonder if enough of us were to email them and the Gravity folk, if both services would add Jaiku as another option.
I have a feeling I'm going to purchase gravity. It's a very solid app (i'm still on trial use) and if they could work out Jaiku integration that would be fantastic.
I paid right away and it's actually pretty killer. I wish it was not IMEI locked, but whatever for now. Gravity actually reminds me of the old S60 Jaiku app ... there's no contact list integration (which would be amazing) but it's really smooth and the app I find myself in most often.
Again - mobile is the key for social networking. At least get an m. working
It's very smooth alright. The IMEI lock does sound a little annoying. I'd hope you're at least able to transfer it if you upgrade your phone - although that's not much consolation for the multi phone user.
I only ever used the Jaiku S60 app a small bit due to no wifi option. Both it and gravity seem to horse a fair bit of bandwidth though. I've always been impressed by the opera mini approach. Compression prior to delivery
32 comments so far
Some of us still here. Where do you microblog nowadays?
7 months, 1 week ago by adewale
I am pretty much on twitter and facebook ... the occasional bulk cross post. The lack of mobile support makes it very hard to engage here
7 months, 1 week ago by atmasphere
mobile support should be sorted soon. Wonder if gravity people could be coerced to add jaiku support?
7 months, 1 week ago by alexleonard
one client would be excellent ... like Mauku on the Tablet side
7 months, 1 week ago by atmasphere
just the simple things like notifications still make Jaiku the superior product ... the closed beta period and extensive migration really hurt here though
7 months, 1 week ago by atmasphere
I know from the desktop point of view i do love having the IM bot option, but it does feel like a client would be a great option. I know there were a few Jaiku clients a while ago which I did test out but always went back to the IM bot option. One less window and app running (seeing as I have the IM client going anyway).
However seeing Jaiku integrated into some of the other clients (similar to how gwibber has it done) would be great.
Definitely from a mobile point of view client integration would be crucial. I'm not sure where the Jaiku S60 app stands at the moment but that was always less useful to me as I wanted it to connect over wifi.
Of course the issue with client integration with current apps like gravity, twibble, etc etc is that they're all in a 140 char limit world, which really is a weakness in my eye. I find attempting to converse in 140 char results in multiple posts continuing on from each other.
Imagine me trying to get my point across here in 140 char with no threads. Impossible.
Definitely the last few months have hit Jaiku user base hard and a lot of people have disappeared. It just needs support and from the sounds of things if the mobile site came back online we'd see a lot more people posting here again.
7 months, 1 week ago by alexleonard
The situation with the S60 client is that @mikie is having problems with the Symbian Signed process. See this thread: http://mikie.jaiku.com/presence/e946fdea73806b9fe254a5c12443ff5c#c-3e310c4d2e6245c6972589a8b96087c3
He's currently back in Finland if any S60 folks want to help out.
7 months, 1 week ago by adewale
Another thing I find really annoying since the change over to AppEngine is that Jaiku now seems to use very short-lived cookies for remembering you are logged in. Seems every time I come look again (to see basically hardly any posts in my overview), I first have to log back in again. Which is just another annoyance to drive me away.
7 months, 1 week ago by CAW
@CAW Thanks to the miracle of open source I can show you that the cookies are set to last for 2 weeks: [http://www.google.com/codesearch/p?hl=en#kmhlYC3TZY/trunk/common/user.py&q=setuser_cookie%20package:http://jaikuengine%5C.googlecode%5C.com]
I think what's actually happening is that every time @termie deploys a new version of the Jaiku code the web app 'forgets' your cookie. I have a vague memory of talking to him about it.
I suppose we could get @termie to do a post as @jaiku whenever he deploys a new version of the system's code so that people have a better idea what's going on.
7 months, 1 week ago by adewale
I'm with @atmasphere; mobile d where I need any social networks to be; unfrtunately I've also got that short window of also wanting something tha integrates simply too. Not sure that a full app is the answer in my case.
7 months, 1 week ago by arjw
I would sooo love to use Jaiku more but Twitter seems to have won the popularity stakes and most of my contacts cannot be found here. Would very much like a desktop or mobile app with Twitter & Jaiku integration.
7 months, 1 week ago by Evertb
@Evertb I don't think anyone can seriously compete with a service that got Oprah Winfrey to sign up.
On the bright side--Jaiku et al don't have to. There's quite a bit of value in a network of services that isn't mainstream or mass market but which still let you interact with the mainstream.
7 months ago by adewale
@adewale I wasn't referring to Oprah or her ilk. It's just that Jaiku (or Twitter) are a superb communication tool. But in order to communicate you need two or more participants. Almost all my contacts are using Twitter while only a few use Jaiku. I prefer Jaiku for the threaded conversation & channels it offers. But without a sizeable "population" these have less value..
7 months ago by Evertb
@Evertb You're right.
However there are only 2 ways to change that.
1- Build a network of Jaiku/JaikuEngine and Identica/Laconica instances that's big enough that people feel they have to be part of that network as well as Twitter.
2- Twitter decide to federate with JaikuEngine/Laconica instances and suddenly it doesn't matter which system you're using because everyone can communicate with everyone else. Of course this depends upon Twitter announcing a business model predicated upon the number of messages flowing the entire microblogging web.
I tend to believe that 1 is the more likely option and that if the OpenMicroBlogging network becomes big enough then Twitter will join it in order to reduce the chance that people might be tempted away from their service.
7 months ago by adewale
Like @alexleonard says, it would be very cool to see Jaiku under the "Add Account" section of Gravity.
7 months ago by topgold
There's an awful cycle that's really hurting Jaiku -- the lack of 3rd-party clients makes it less desirable for people to use the service, so they go towards Twitter and FriendFeed whose popularity encourages people to make all sorts of different desktop and mobile clients for both services. But because there aren't very many people using Jaiku, it's not as attractive to devs to create useful 3rd-party clients. <<major sigh>>
I want a desktop client like TweetDeck or Nambu and a mobile client like Tweetie (or Gravity, I guess) for Jaiku. I would =love= it if Mauku were ported to the iPhone, but I think my requests for that won't ever be addressed. The more ways I can access Jaiku, the more I'd use it. I'm no longer satisfied with using the website or the IM bot. They just seem archaic compared to how Twitter and FriendFeed are accessible.
7 months ago by jezlyn
Although I'm amazed twitter doesn't have the IM bot option.
7 months ago by alexleonard
@alexleonard: it used to have. then it caused so much trouble they took it off.
7 months ago by BUGabundo
IM bot gone mad eh? How many times have we seen that happen.
7 months ago by alexleonard
@alexleonard: pleanty. we just don't scale as big as them!
7 months ago by BUGabundo
twitter does do IM ... it's on and off but it is there. It's also possible to do it with plugins in adium / pidgin/ Mobile IM can be doen in clients within Fring as well.
I use Gravity and tweetdeck mainly and it's very simple - though far from as organized as Jaiku was and still is. This has always been an incredibly civil place to have a conversation and apparently it is still a great pace to share ideas and meet with friends.
I can't see twitter suddenly deciding to be the protocol for everyone to play on. They are just building into a mss platform and that seems to be the path to success. We'll probably see things built on top which will make it harder for other services. It would have been interesting if Jaiku was baked into Latitude as there is no discussion yet there ... and it seems like an easy way to offer Jaiku services across a great deal of platforms through maps - another key difference for Jaiku over twitter. Jaiku was always ahead with location - though did not do a whole lot with the info.
And yeah not possible in 140 characters.
7 months ago by atmasphere
@atmasphere: IM is still there??? I just use µblogpurple for pidgin, but that's a scrapper. what I never got was why #twitter manage to go where #jaiku didn't! we are better then them in every way. our tuff luck was google buying #jaiku and leave it to die.
7 months ago by BUGabundo
@BUGabundo Twitter being based in San Francisco really helped get them access to a lot of VCs and highly connected people from the Sillicon Valley scene. Also having easy access to a market of 250 million people who all spoke the same language helped.
Compare the lack of hype around Spotify. Spotify is a potentially massive (many billions of $CURRENCY) business but because they're European they're not being treated as if they're the Second Coming. If they were based in Sillicon Valley they'd be on magazine covers and TV shows all the time.
In short: geography matters.
7 months ago by adewale
@adewale the comparison with spotify is an interesting choice. Their issue has nothing to do with being European - it's that you can't use it outside of the EU. Why should anyone in the US care that it even exists when last.fm (among at least 10 other services) can be used. Jaiku shut people out, did not open back up, then rebooted after most people it seems had moved on. Now it's back and things like mobile (a key factor) are gone just like feeds.
This is no longer about lifestreaming or mobile apparently. That's a tough sell compared to twitter or even facebook which offer access from all kinds of devices and locations.
7 months ago by atmasphere
AFAICT we are now too late in the race. it will much harder to get new (and old) users back in, because we lost not the batal, but the war. what ever we do here, its just for our selfs, its no longer a product to be sold, its not even to compete with the others. and even we FOSS code, how many will really install it and run it ?
7 months ago by BUGabundo
but hay don't let me stop any one. by the contraire. every bit of improvement, and every old user that comes back, is great for me and everyone else here! we LOVE this place, and that why we keep coming! I just hope I can one day have all my friends back here, and let me talk to all of them as once I did
7 months ago by BUGabundo
TweetDeck added Facebook status updates, I wonder if enough of us were to email them and the Gravity folk, if both services would add Jaiku as another option.
7 months ago by msjen
Well I guess there's only one way to find out :)
I have a feeling I'm going to purchase gravity. It's a very solid app (i'm still on trial use) and if they could work out Jaiku integration that would be fantastic.
If I buy it I'll certainly request it
7 months ago by alexleonard
I paid right away and it's actually pretty killer. I wish it was not IMEI locked, but whatever for now. Gravity actually reminds me of the old S60 Jaiku app ... there's no contact list integration (which would be amazing) but it's really smooth and the app I find myself in most often.
Again - mobile is the key for social networking. At least get an m. working
7 months ago by atmasphere
It's very smooth alright. The IMEI lock does sound a little annoying. I'd hope you're at least able to transfer it if you upgrade your phone - although that's not much consolation for the multi phone user.
I only ever used the Jaiku S60 app a small bit due to no wifi option. Both it and gravity seem to horse a fair bit of bandwidth though. I've always been impressed by the opera mini approach. Compression prior to delivery
7 months ago by alexleonard
i'm not so sure they will add support for #jaiku anytime soon!
identica has been voting for it for a while, and received zero feedback
http://tweetdeck.uservoice.com/pages/general/suggestions/10275-support-for-identi-ca-and-laconica-federated-blogging
7 months ago by BUGabundo
ohh that came out HUGE fonts
7 months ago by BUGabundo